WILL UKRAINE RECEIVE RUSSIAN MONEY - INTERVIEW WITH CANADIAN SENATOR

Andriy Kulykov’s interview with Ratna Omidvar on Canada’s plans regarding Russian assets and why it is important for Ukraine

Ratna Omidvar is a Canadian politician who submitted a bill to the Senate, according to which the assets of the Russian Federation in Canada should be seized and transferred to Ukraine. The senator is certain: this is exactly what other civilized countries should do. watch the interview here:

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Hello everyone. Today, our interlocutor is Senator Ratna Omidwar of Canada, and she's the person who tabled a law, a draft law that suggests that the Russian state’s assets in Canada should be confiscated. As the conversation with Senator Omid War will show, the actual significance of the law, if it is passed, is much more than just Canada. It may be replicated in some other important countries of the world. Actions very closely and insofar as they have this opportunity and pin rather big hopes on what you're doing. So question is, the first question is what sums are we talking about when we talk about your initiative to unfreeze or defreeze Russian assets in Canada?

RATNA OMIDWAR: The total sum of Russian state assets in the world we know is roughly 300 to $350 billion. We don't know exactly how much is still in Canada. We do know that 16 billion was removed in December before the invasion of Ukraine by the Russians and deposited into a Belgian bank. However, perhaps for your viewers, it may be important to know that it is the principle that matters. Perhaps it is not as important how much money is located in Canada. It is the principle of the action. And the principle is this. Russia has launched an illegal war. Russia must pay and not anyone else. And Russia must pay now and not sometime in the future. So I hope that if Canada adopts this proposal, others will follow it. There's always someone who goes first and figures out the international consequences, the legal consequences, all of that. And because Canada has possibly little money from Russia, maybe Canada is the right jurisdiction to take the first step, take the risk, and smooth the path for others. The United States is also thinking about this. The UK has, you know, a lot of Russian money, but they have very particular laws around property rights. Estonia has tabled legislation that is very similar to the Canadian proposal that I tabled 2 years ago and that became law, but that dealt with individual assets, oligarch assets, and things, you know, like the plane that we have seized in Toronto. But state assets are not a matter. So we have to find another way, which is my second proposal now that I hope will be just as successful as the first because Canada has proceeded to seize $26 million of assets from Roman Abramovich.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Canadian or American dollars?

RATNA OMIDWAR:I think in Canada we talk about Canadian dollars.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: That's what I thought. But most people in Ukraine would first think about American dollars. Senator Omidwar, I feel the passion in your in what you're saying. On the other hand, you are reputed to be a very logical and very sober-minded person. This passion, does it help or does it get in the way of what you're doing as a parliamentarian?

RATNA OMIDWAR: I think passion with reason is what I bring to the table. There is good reasoning behind my proposal. We know that the reconstruction of Ukraine is now scheduled to cost billions and billions of dollars. We know that big supporters of Ukraine, like Canada, like the United States, like other parts of the world, have been generous. And I'm extremely proud of how far. Canadians have gone on a per capita basis, and Canada provides the greatest support to Ukraine. I'm very proud of that. But I'm also mindful of domestic pressures. And I think you are citizens, as you well know, are mindful and are subject to other pressures in their nation. And it makes perfect sense since Russia is the perpetrator, Russia must pay.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: You quoted some examples from the past when different countries adopted different legislation about the assets of Russian oligarchs. But your proposal is innovative in the sense that it deals with state assets. What's the difference? How much more is it difficult or maybe less difficult to deal with the state assets?

RATNA OMIDWAR: It's much more difficult to deal with state assets because state assets are protected by international laws. One country can simply not take the assets of another country willy-nilly. That's you know that would break every norm of our world order which is a little unsteady right now, I would say in general. So it requires a clearly crafted legal underpinning and a clearly crafted execution strategy, which is what we are, which I have tabled. The legal strategy is that it must be anchored. Any actions such as this, by the way, Ukraine or Russia, are not mentioned in the law itself. It is neutral to jurisdiction, because who knows, we may want to apply it at another time. So I've chosen to do it this way. I think the US likely, if it follows this path, will name Russia and Ukraine in that legislation. So the bill that I have proposed will be called into action if it's passed when 1) a nation-state is in a clear breach of international peace and security and 2) has committed gross human rights violations.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Who should rule on this? Who should say that the state is in clear breach of international law or has committed human rights violations?

RATNA OMIDWAR: Who decides if a country is in breach of international peace and security? And who decides if there are gross human rights violations? Well, it is the Government of Canada in this case that would decide with, you know, all the evidence that is before it. But those two conditions must be met before the Government of Canada can take action to seize Russian state assets and repurpose them back to the victims.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Do you feel any particular resistance to your bill, both on the political side and on the public side? Or maybe there's a universal or enough support for your initiative.

RATNA OMIDWAR: What support do I have? Canadians, and in particular Canadian parliamentarians are hugely supportive of Ukraine. We have welcomed President Zelenskyi with great enthusiasm to our Parliament in September. We have approved aid, We have approved the sending of many ways of expressing our support for Ukraine. I believe the Canadian people are also strongly behind the fight for the freedom of Ukraine. So I have the support of the public. The question is, do I have the support of parliamentarians? I believe I have the support of parliamentarians. And you know, we just have to go through the legislative process to determine whether this law can be called into action, and by the way, the government of Canada could also simply accept this proposal and put it into what we would call an amendment of another kind. So my purpose is as an individual senator, you know, I'm just an individual senator. I'm not the Government of Canada, but the Government of Canada is watching this very costly and I hope that they will shortcut the whole legislative, and parliamentary process and simply say we are going to do this. As they did last time when they approved the proposal to seize oligarch assets

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Senator Omidwar, my next question is to you, not probably as much as to the Senator, but as to a person. Let’s suppose that your plan works, suppose that the government rules Suppose that the assets are confiscated and in this or that way handed to Ukraine. Where should we place them? What we should use them for?

RATNA OMIDWAR: That is an excellent question, Andrey because seizing the assets is the first part of the equation. Distributing them with transparent governance is another. There are proposals that have been crafted around a world Ukrainian fund. There have been proposals that have been crafted and are being talked about a Canadian Ukrainian fund, which would be, which would be governed by Canadians, including members of the Ukrainian diaspora. I believe it whatever happens, it must be transparent. People need to see where the money is used, my own biases. It must be used for the victims of the war to help them in their very challenged, immediate future.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Senator Omidwar, you spoke about the probability of the US enacting or adopting similar legislation, and you also mentioned that there might be differences in the legislation and obviously in the attitudes in the United States. The question is to what extent does the attitude and the situation in the United States influence Canadian public opinion and Canadian parliamentarians and government?

RATNA OMIDWAR: Well, that's an excellent question. We live next to one of the greatest superpowers in the world. When they sneeze, we catch the flu. We share a common language, and there are lots of ideas that float back and forth. But we are also staunchly independent. We are not simply, you know, a satellite state of the US. We are very proud when we have gone our own way and I will point to our refusal to go to war in Iraq as an example of our independence and the strength of our independence. So I understand, and I read and you read what's happening in the United States around questions around the war, the support of the war. These ideas may also likely float over because we are, you know, there are different ideas prevail in our country as well, but we are not a proxy for the United States.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Supposing that everything goes smoothly, then when we may expect the passion and the enactment of your new initiative, what is the procedure in the Canadian parliament? Like in Ukraine, you have to have at least two regions before the law is adopted, and then the president has to sign it and all this kind of stuff. What is the procedure in Canada?

RATNA OMIDWAR: The procedure in Canada is not dissimilar except we have two Houses of Parliament and I don't know if you have two Houses of Parliament. I'm in the Senate. It must go through a second reading in the Senate. It must go to committee, where it's looked at very, very carefully. Some changes sometimes are made at committee that it is brought back to the Senate. There's more debate, there's more discussion, and then a vote is called. And if it is approved in the Senate, it gets sent over to the House of Commons for the same procedure. So there are always two Houses of Parliament looking at every aspect of the law. So it's not, it's not going to happen tomorrow. Let me put it this way. There have been moments where we have been able to work extremely expeditiously. I'll give an example. COVID was an example where we very quickly passed laws. I'm I am underlining the urgency of the moment. I am underlining that every opportunity I get because of the dire situation in Ukraine right now, I don't believe Ukrainians can wait for relief. We have to respond not just with good words but with real, tangible action. This could be a tangible action.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Probably a couple of questions more, and one of them is obviously you talk and you interact with many senators and many representatives if I'm calling them rightly, but do you often interact with the government? and are you aware of how Mr Trudeau or other people in the government may treat your bill?

RATNA OMIDWAR: I do talk with the government. The government. When President Solinsky was visiting Canada in September, the Deputy Prime Minister, who was the Minister of Finance, announced the creation of a task force between Ukraine and Canada inviting other jurisdictions. And the Deputy Prime Minister invited me to be a member of this task force. So they are taking it seriously because they're already convening around this. The arguments are being made. Just recently, two days ago, a letter, a signed letter from US luminaries, was sent out, including the former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Sam Summers and constitutional law. It's like calling like Lawrence tribe. Calling on government, on the government of the United States to do exactly what Canada is thinking of doing. So, you know, I believe Canada is not the United States. We are a middle power and this is a moment that calls for some leadership I believe our government wants to occupy that position of leadership, especially when it comes to the matter of helping our Ukrainian brothers and sisters.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: The next question is not directly connected to what we're talking about, but maybe it is connected to it even more directly than the other ones. Have you ever been to Ukraine?

RATNA OMIDWAR: No, I have never been to Ukraine. It is certainly an aspiration that I have and I have been asked to come to Ukraine several times and Perhaps that will happen in the future. I don't know.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: All right. What's your favorite season of the year?

RATNA OMIDWAR: My favorite season of the year is always spring or fall.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Spring and fall are beautiful in Ukraine, So please do come when we have your favorite season of the year. Thank you very, very much, Senator Omid War. We wish you all the best and well. At least those people who are now recording this interview together with me are deeply grateful to you for your effort and saying that we shall overcome.

RATNA OMIDWAR: Thank you so much for your time and attention. I thank you so much.

ANDRIY KULYKOV: Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye.